Dan 2:44 all the kingdoms of Iron, clay, bronze, etc are destroyed at one time

[me2lord]

Here is something the Lord revealed to me in his word concerning the teaching of pious teachers over the Iron, Gold, Silver, Bronze to be Empires of the past... is incorrect.

Dan 2:35 tells us these are nations of people and NOT EMPIRES. When the stone, who is Christ, comes and crushes all these who are to this day known as the Gold, the Iron, Silver and Bronze and still in existence are destroyed and made to chaff, then will the earth be filled with the Lord.

Dan 2:35 "Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

The book of Daniel is the scroll containing the events of the End and all the pious men of God and all the readers of the bible have not been able to read Daniel in clarity because it was God's desire for it not to be gleamed properly until the time of the END

Dan 12:4, 9. The Lord has told us in verse 35 the gold , the iron, the clay , the silver and the gold are all crushed at the same time. and they are burned like chaff and the stone which is Christ struck this great statue and destroyed them all at once, making it clear these where not Empires over time as it has been taught.

Unless one is willing to accept the verses of Dan 12:4,9 where the Lord states these verses on the end have been sealed up by God and where we could not understand them properly, it may be difficult to receive these things God has said in Dan 2:35
This post has been edited by me2lord: 16 May 2010 - 01:20 PM

[cizz]

Sister,

I don't know what your thoughts are on the end time body of Christ (church) and there being a false image and representation of the body of Christ? But while reading your post, sister Rose posted  in daily bible studies,

Mal 3:3

(3)  And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

This has brought to mind scripture and verses where the Lord cleanses His temple first,

Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which [were] before the house.

Dan 12:7     Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the  river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that [it shall be] for a time, times, and half [a time]; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these [things] shall be finished.

Could this image also represent the 'false image' of the body of Christ (church)

Isa 8:14  And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Zep 1:3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land," Says the LORD.
 
I hate calling this image 'false' as I feel more that this image of people joined together calling themselves the body of Christ are but only in 'err', having missed the mark in their understanding which have lead to them becoming 'stumbling blocks' for others in what they lead and teach others with...

[me2lord]

Sister,

I don't know what your thoughts are on the end time body of Christ (church) and there being a false image and representation of the body of Christ? But while reading your post, sister Rose posted  in daily bible studies,

Good morning sister,   I love you....I am going to need some coffee for this...lol    I haven't given a lot of thought on this false image, other than just reading  Rev 13:15-16.   There is so much to gather on these events that are not too far ahead of us to start up, I am open to listening to what you or others may have gathered from the scriptures on it...lol

One thing for sure, there is much more in the bible than I had thought on these things so I am leaving myself opened to any verses that speak things I have not seen or understood in times past.   I am like GPR on this,   the verses override any old teachings I may have had. lol

Mal 3:3

(3)  And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

This has brought to mind scripture and verses where the Lord cleanses His temple first,

 

 Malachi 3:3 is an end time prophecy and the tribe of Levi who God chooses to come into the Millennium to serve  The Lord as the Feast of Tabernacles will be instituted for the 1000 yrs, until Rev 20:7-10 is fulfilled.  I have not studied into this very much,  as it seems you have, but the Lord does compare Israel to gold and to silver in the purification process.  To work out  the impurities in both houses of Israel. lol

Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which [were] before the house.

You are on fire with the verses...sister!  lol   I am not sure I am giving you all need, because I don't know everything on this,  the best I can offer is maybe more verses that speak on the same thing...or at least I think they are...:-)

Ezk 9:6   is another End time verse scene  concerning the mark which I am assuming is the mark that seals them,  from God before they are taken and placed in their rooms. 

Where it is spoken  of these being  marked in Ezk 9:3-4  where the man clothed in linen  is told to go through the city of Jerusalem,  it  coincides  to those being marked in Rev 7:3  and  Rev 9:4 during the End times, who are described with the angel of God, to put a "MARK" on the foreheads of those who grieve  and lament over all the detestable things that are done who are in the city of Jerusalem.   

We can take these verses and make some spiritual analogies in them,  but the focus of the physical event that is taking place must not be pushed to the side, because God intended these verses to  help us understand in the Latter days these events taking place that will be taking place just prior to his parting the clouds and coming down. 

the angels of God do God's work and deal with us as  long as we are physical because the physical flesh will die in the presence of the Lord as told to us in the books about Moses.

The man in white linen is an angel who comes and seals those lamenting in Jerusalem which  the Lord identifies as the tribes there  in Rev 7 and as Levi in Ezk 9 so my opinion is they are one and the same being spoken about.   But this is my opinion from reading these...lol
 

Dan 12:7     Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the  river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that [it shall be] for a time, times, and half [a time]; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these [things] shall be finished.

 

 I personally take all these things Daniel spoke about  in the literal realm for now, though they have metaphors and symbols  attached to them in some ways.  The 3 1/2 yrs spoken of in Daniel 12:7  is coinciding  to the  times time and a half time in Dan 7:25 concerning the Beast opposing the Saints,  which also coincides to the 1260 days spoken of the Beast in the temple wing spoken about in the N.T.     

I have wondered what the power of the holy people is that has to be completely shattered before  all is finished.   do you have any insight on this?   

Could this image also represent the 'false image' of the body of Christ (church)

Isa 8:14  And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Zep 1:3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land," Says the LORD.
 
I hate calling this image 'false' as I feel more that this image of people joined together calling themselves the body of Christ are but only in 'err', having missed the mark in their understanding which have lead to them becoming 'stumbling blocks' for others in what they lead and teach others with...[/size]

Isaiah brings both houses of Israel into the equation so it is meant for the Christian too as you bring this out.  I can only give an opinion on these verses and what they are referring to,  it seems evident that it concerns God's people who have not been upright, both Christian and Jew, and Jesus is the Rock that will become a snare for them in the last days to make them stumble and fall not to be recovered, but those who are upright will be placed in his sanctuary that protects them during this time of trouble called the last Days.  lol

These are my thoughts on all of this as I have tried to provide as many verses as possible to show which is why  I have come to these conclusions. lol

In Christ's love

[Dragonslayer]

Could it be that Grace itself fades. I've railed at times against conspiracy theories, but I must confess that one strain of it exists in me. We've all heard some folks in the other forum. Whom have twisted ideas, contexts, and the like; in order to serve their own viewpoint... The most obvious are the anti semites.

But my theory is is that over the two millenia and prior to that in the 2-3 millenia BC the churches and houses of worship themselves have become calcified with interpretations. A type of Golden era ensues just after divine intervention, and little by little it's replacing and chipping away at that grace. It's funny, even the false doctrinals have sometimes great mastery over the bible. The devil himself does, and even we do it from time to time. As dogma usurpes the Word, as ritual replaces enthusiasm, as the threats of heresy and the culture of those groups squash divine inspiration, we see systems that grow over and glean past the faithfuls intention, of simple communion.

In 20 short centuries the corruption and the corruptability of those initial intentions are what brings the need for armagedon like or Christ like revolution. In addition to the calcification, also evil walks through the door. Satan knows his bible. Satan was there for a goodly portion of it. His voice mimicks and mingles with the established clergy especially in it's descendant phase. So here we are.

My point is  that the remnants must be tempered and purified like gold and silver.

Dan 12:7     Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the  river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that [it shall be] for a time, times, and half [a time]; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these [things] shall be finished.

Shattered because of that inherent calcification.

It's strange that individuals call themselves Lutheran or Catholic, or Baptist as if those were the default responsibility of the faithful, it also says something about ownership as well .
We are "owned " by Christ as we chose him , as we develope that, but the real test is coming to grips with the ownership ourselves as we own the various fellowships themselves.

The Betrothred bride, But a marriage is bilaterally owned. The marriage is not consummated through institutional faith. But by virtue of individual consummation. At least that's my take. If you want to look at the ruin of the alternative, just look at the RCC. They're even more calcified because His Holiness is considered the divine voice. What a statement of a lack of scriptural faith. G*d NEEDS a voice on earth? I don't know my G*d can speak for himself... As memory fades so two does Grace it erodes. But the erosion also has that active party in Satan.

George

[me2lord]

How beautifully expressed!  ;D 

What a pleasure it is to get to know you outside of the other forum.  To listen to your thoughts on verses and biblical issues without all the religious rhetoric that prevents the peace and love needed to hear what another one is saying.   

It has amazed me to be on this site thanks to our dear sister Cizz, who made this possible, and find the peace, and I can actually hear what others are saying in the intent they are expressing it.   Hope you will find this same fulfillment here.

I am in total agreement with you we are all one in Christ, regardless of membership in any particular church...lol  I would be attacked right now having said this on the other forum.   


Jesus said to love one another and by this we will be his disciples only.   We have to love all denominations of people,  but not their doctrine.   This is a little off subject but reading what you said brought this out from me. lol

It is true the members of  the church have become calcified with interpretations through out time,  and this was one reason why I prayed and started asking the Lord to teach me directly himself through his Holy Spirit which is exactly what I found John 14:26 to be saying..

Since then I have stopped thinking in the mindset denominations tend to  bring you into....thank the Lord he showed me they are all his children who profess his name and follow the way of love to one another....nothing matters more than that...lol

Thanks for sharing, hope to see you come and post your thoughts for us and share your love on these times we exist in.  lol

In Christ's love
Vickie

[Dragonslayer]

Thank You for your Kindness Vicki. My reasoning stems from the idea that the Philadelphian Church is not just a thing of the past, but also a prophesy about the end times and as such it indicates a new and cleansed church. As we are here now owning what we write and growing with and through each other, the clerics are at the wayside and the revival brewing. But also in evolutionary terms the Philadelphian to me symbolizes the Christ presence the Christ consciousness.

G*d gives us the foundations of our revolution by laying a foundation that is perfect and inspired. As time passes humans build on it. But they also build in to it their own imperfections. Towards the very top and completion of that structure it becomes bastardizations of what was in the layer just underneath which was also bastardized. Bastardizations of bastardization. He allows us to do this because each time the structures must be taken down we've set a higher bar a higher understanding, and grown ever so much more competant at pulling focus on the issues and ideas that mean something to HIM.

We are at just about the tear down level now. It is my sense that the completion of this current epoch will seal the Adamic question, and most certainly we will be posed a new Adamic question or rather a replacement thereof. But if I am right about the sealing of the Adamic question. It will mean the resolution of what the Judeo Christian impetus was since man first uttered the name Jehovah. It is a huge question. The nature of good and evil. The knowledge of the two.  It is not and never seems to have been about the destruction of evil, presumably G*d could destroy it, if he so chose. At least it stands to reason that He could.  So why does He choose not to? Maybe because of the necesity to tame it or to TRANSFORM IT....  Physics teaches us through Einstein that the energy does not disipate but transforms and is on a continuous journey of transformation as it exists. . We also know at this stage that positive and negative are necessary for the existance of this particular reaLity we live in. So whether that reality is present in the greater existential reality of the Almighty. Who knows. But His actions attest to some reason for not destroying evil.
This relates back to the purification in the following way, if one relates to what is said above and if in fact the Adamic question is sealed than the Philadelphian church is a transitional church that will not just flesh out the Adanic question and explain it and stamp that upon the reigned for a 1000 years, but it will also bring on the next question. With the state of modern Christendom, and Judaism being so "calcified . How could such an amazing work of transformation ever be instituted?  It stands to reason that the Almighty must rip the old into dust. Like kingdoms built in chalk on a chalk board it must be erased and the slate made clean. The board has been cluttered with our scratchings and equations of attempting to understand the initial question over centuries of absorbing and playing with this divine math. But like a good teacher that allows the student to err and err and climb their way into the simple answer. Here it comes , for those that have pride in what man has become are about to feel great shame and the humiliation of the simplicity of the solution. Because by proxy the most probable truth is that Christ was our cheat sheet. Somehow the Adamic question was resolved could the answer simply be "Love thy neighbor as you love yourself." But what does that mean? Because in so much as loving onesself as much as thy neighbor, dopes it also include self loathing? Fear? Doubt? Depression?
YES!!! And is through the cheat sheet that we understand the question. Because organisms do not by nature destroy themselves. So even in the worst circumstances destruction is pretty much off the table.

Cheers George

[cizz]

I personally take all these things Daniel spoke about  in the literal realm for now, though they have metaphors and symbols  attached to them in some ways.  The 3 1/2 yrs spoken of in Daniel 12:7  is coinciding  to the  times time and a half time in Dan 7:25 concerning the Beast opposing the Saints,  which also coincides to the 1260 days spoken of the Beast in the temple wing spoken about in the N.T.     

I have wondered what the power of the holy people is that has to be completely shattered before  all is finished.   do you have any insight on this?  

Sister, the first thing that came to mind,

2Th 2:7  For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains [will do so] until He is taken out of the way.

2Th 2:8  And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


Wow! Get this, I went back and looked at Dan. 12:7 in the KJV...the word is not shattered, but scattered, which the Hebrew word it is translated from can mean both...

Dan 12:7      And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

Strong's H5310 - naphats

1) to shatter, break, dash, beat in pieces

a) (Qal)

1) to shatter

2) shattering (infinitive)

b.) (Piel) to dash to pieces

c) (Pual)

to pulverise

2) to scatter, disperse, overspread, be scattered

a) (Qal)

1) to be scattered

2) dispersed (participle)

[tsth]

Sister,



Could this image also represent the 'false image' of the body of Christ (church)

FWIW, I think so.


In His Love,
Suzanne

[whirlwind]

Sister,

I don't know what your thoughts are on the end time body of Christ (church) and there being a false image and representation of the body of Christ? But while reading your post, sister Rose posted  in daily bible studies,

Mal 3:3

(3)  And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

This has brought to mind scripture and verses where the Lord cleanses His temple first,

Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which [were] before the house.

Dan 12:7     Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the  river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that [it shall be] for a time, times, and half [a time]; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these [things] shall be finished.

Could this image also represent the 'false image' of the body of Christ (church)

Isa 8:14  And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Zep 1:3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land," Says the LORD.
 
I hate calling this image 'false' as I feel more that this image of people joined together calling themselves the body of Christ are but only in 'err', having missed the mark in their understanding which have lead to them becoming 'stumbling blocks' for others in what they lead and teach others with...

Interesting Scriptures Cizz.  

I too believe the "gold and silver" refer to God's children.  

• Haggai 2:8  The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine, saith the LORD of hosts.

I am also in agreement with how you interpret the "man in linen" where you say....Could this image also represent the 'false image' of the body of Christ (church)

• Ezekiel 9:1-3  He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.  And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon He was, to the threshold of the house. And He called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
  
  9:4-6  And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

Those in charge of the city are those misleading God's children.  Where do they come from?  From the north and that is where God's throne will be.  These six (666) men are led by one "clothed in linen" and linen is the "righteous acts of the saints."  This is the fake...the great deceiver...pretending to of God now residing in the church of God.  That is how they destroy.  Those marked are sealed with truth and Satan can't touch them.  All others will be misled.  

This same event and same man "clothed in linen" is written of in....

• Revelation 6:1-2 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.  And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

As he came from the north...God's holy place, pretending to be of God....dressed in linen...here he is on a white horse, with a bow and crown.  Again pretending to be Jesus who comes AFTER this pretender.  

[me2lord]

Dan 12:7      And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

Strong's H5310 - naphats

1) to shatter, break, dash, beat in pieces

a) (Qal)

1) to shatter

2) shattering (infinitive)

b.) (Piel) to dash to pieces

c) (Pual)

to pulverise

2) to scatter, disperse, overspread, be scattered

a) (Qal)

1) to be scattered

2) dispersed (participle)

how wonderful for you to look that word up...it should be scattered "NO DOUBT"...there has been some things that are not translated well through out the bible and when you do word searches like you just did , we can see much clearer in what Jesus is saying...How awesome thank you so much..lol
 

[tsth]

Thisis a very important and good study.

Thank you for sharing this.


In His Love,
Suzanne

[me2lord]

I am glad we can talk about this and I get to hear your thoughts as well because there is still much to be learned in what the Lord says and I want to keep myself opened to all the Lord writes in his bible...lol   

The mark upon the foreheads in these verses have always caught my eye  in what is God speaking about, as there is the Mark of God and the Mark of  the Beast and it leads me to see it is the Marking of God's hand on a person whether they are his or not.   

Search Analysis
Aligned Hits In Context
HebrewStrongs in H8420
New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update
7 occurrences
mark (2), signature (1), twins (4)

Gen 25:24 …to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were    twins in her womb.  (use "MARKED" would have been better)
Gen 38:27 …was giving birth, that behold, there were    twins  in her womb. 
Job 31:35 …to hear me! Behold, here is my    signature ; Let the Almighty answer me! And … (here is my "Mark")
Song 4:5 …Your two breasts are like two fawns,    Twins  of a gazelle Which feed among …
Song 7:3 …Your two breasts are like two fawns,    Twins of a gazelle. 
Ezek 9:4 …the midst of Jerusalem, and put a    mark on the foreheads of the men who …
Ezek 9:6 …touch any man on whom is the    mark ; and you shall start from My sanctuary 


New Testament   word "forehead"

Aligned hits in Context for the word "foreheads" 

GreekStrongs in G3359

New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update
8 occurrences

forehead (4), foreheads (4)
Rev 7:3 …the bond-servants of our God on their    foreheads .” 
Rev 9:4 …  only those people who do not have the seal of God on their    foreheads . 
Rev 13:16 …mark on their right hand or on their    forehead , 
Rev 14:1 …name of His Father written on their    foreheads . 
Rev 14:9 …image, and receives a mark on his    forehead  or on his hand, 
Rev 17:5 and on her    forehead  a name was written, a mystery, “…
Rev 20:4 …had not received the mark on their    forehead  and on their hand; and they …
Rev 22:4 …His name will be on their    foreheads 


And  we have this (NIV)  a verse of the people of God set up in the Kingdom and the groups the Lord places them in...

Isaiah 44:4-5  They will spring up like grass in a meadow, like poplar trees by flowing streams. 
One will say,  "I belong to the Lord".
Another will call himself by the Name of Jacob
Still another will "WRITE ON HIS HAND"  The Lord's and "will take the name Israel".

Ps 4:3 But know that the Lord has set apart the godly man for Himself;

Conclusion:  We know  we have the Mark because we have the Holy Spirit. God's words are in our hearts and in our minds and what we do with our hands shows whom we belong to. 

Just as those who refuse the Lord's spirit and  take the Mark of the Beast, and are evil in God's sight, on that day,  those in Jerusalem Ezk 9:4 who are grieving and  and lament over all the detestable things being done are Marked to be Saved from the eternal fire coming down out of heaven.

This day is not far from us in coming.  It will come at the end of the 1260 days of the Beast power in the wing of the temple...amen. We do not know the hour or the day but Jesus will come and with eternal fire devouring those who not his. We should see the Beast power very soon arising up and know we have 1260 days with a 45 day period in which the Lord said he would appear.

We have been marked and sealed by the Lord, fear no man.

In Christ's love
Vickie

[tsth]

Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.


frontlets: Strongs #2903

bands, phylacteries, frontlets, marks

Deut. 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlet s between your eyes. 


In His Love,
Suzanne

[me2lord]

Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.


frontlets: Strongs #2903

bands, phylacteries, frontlets, marks

Deut. 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlet s between your eyes. 


In His Love,
Suzanne

You are so sweet Suzanne....the perfect verse .   
Isn't it exciting we have this mark?   And the world sees it in us.   We are his, because he has marked us and sealed us for his pleasures.

The  Mark of God, is His Word and His Holy Spirit given to us to teach us...WOW...

I John 2:27  Little children  As for you, the Anointing you have received from the Lord remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you.  And  as His Anointing (Holy Spirit)  teaches you about "ALL THINGS" and as the Anointing is "REAL", not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, REMAIN IN HIM.

In Christ's love
 Vickie