Why do you not see them as prophets too?
Hello whirlwind...
There is such a fine line between a prophet, a seer and a covenant person God uses for his purpose of messages, which is what the verse refers to..
These all receive messages from the Lord in various ways, yet they are different in their service to God. The Sholinite was did not hold an office or the lord would have mentioned it and it was he received prophecy which any covenanted person can receive prophecy if the Lord gives it through the holy spirit. Vision come to the Seer, one who has revelations, he did not hold an office as a prophet or God would have said so.
Being a prophet is an office that is given by the Lord man can not give it. A Seer is who has insight to scriptures and revelations given to him by the Lord but is not recognized as the office of a prophet in the bible. There are some verses I would have to find on this but, this is where I come from on what I have read. The prophet is the only one that is an office given by God. God directly assigns the office, not man. lol
This is the reason why I have said what I have presented. I am open to verses that will show me different, until then this is where I will have to stand on a prophet is office given by God and assigned by God only and not man.
I'm not certain what you mean by "
holding an office???" I do agree that insight is God given.
Isa 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord has given me are for signs and wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, who dwells on Mount Zion.
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There I have to disagree with you. Where it is written, "I and the children are for signs and wonders" it means....us. We are the signs and wonders. His Spirit indwells us and we prophesy.
- 1 Corinthians 12:28-29 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
That is today, not just in Paul's time. I think where the disagreement comes about is in our understanding of the meaning of prophesy. It isn't just to tell of future events.
Okay, I am not one to force my views down others, only post them..lol
I can see where you have this approach by what you have presented above, but I would have to disagree with you that this is not two-fold, simply because Isaiah was given as signs to "Israel" signs that where NOT GOOD SIGNS but curses for the most part coming on them by God then and in the last days.
Isaiah 20 is a chapter of Isaiah told to strip off clothes and sandals and go naked for three years (Isa 20:3) to Egypt, Cush and Assyria and to give warning to Israel those who go in the Last Days will not escape God when he comes.
Isa 7:17-25 Israel was prophesied to by Isaiah that Jesus will come, referring to the Last Days and flies and bees will come and cover their water holes and settle in the steep ravines and crevices of the rocks and on that Day of the Lord Jesus will send the King of Assyria to shave the heads and legs take off their breads and this day will soon come upon the Israel as we are entering into these times mentioned.
God told Isaiah not to follow the ways of Israel in Isaiah 8:11 In Isaiah 9 speaks of the Lord against Israel. Isaiah 10 then the Lord has Isaiah speak against Assyria who punishes Israel that they will be punished by the Lord at his coming.
All of Isaiah is prophecy of what the Lord is coming to do, from sending a savior to their denying him to the Lord sending curses upon them prophesied by Isaiah to a time when they Lord will set up his kingdom here on earth and only a remnant of them will survive, there is never a time that while Isaiah is alive in Israel that Isaiah is given as a good sing to them concerning their actions by the Lord.
If you have a verse when Isaiah is a good sign to Israel for their behavior in Isaiah time I would thank you for showing it to me.
From all I have read in Isaiah he was a sign for bad and not good on the house of Israel and those who opposed her then and will oppose her in the Last Days.
Not long ago I posted a thread on this subject....I'll repost it on this forum. It is
Let THEM Be For Signs. It goes into detail about why I see us as His signs.
Concerning Isaiah, he did what you do....he warned as you warn. As was he, you are a sign to others. God speaks through you and today's prophets as He spoke through His prophets of long ago. It is God given for His prophets are chosen in the last days.....
- Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Many are called to follow Him and they do but of those a few are chosen for specific purposes. They are His first fruits (the first [
fruits] at the last [
days]). They are chosen to
hear and
see His Word with understanding and take that Word to all that will hear. His prophets and apostles were reserved until the end and to them He gives the "
latter rain," which is deeper understanding. They in turn teach, prophesy (
speak with Divine revelation) to increase His harvest....
- Jeremiah 5:24 Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: He reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.
Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: His going forth is prepared as the morning; and He shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for He hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
Now to cover the subject of Prophesying
Numbers 11:25 Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to him; and He took of the Spirit who was upon him and placed Him upon the seventy elders. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But they did not do it again.
There is a major difference in your translation and in the King James. Where you show "they did not do it again," the KJ is they "did not cease."
- Numbers 11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
I find that strange. That is a HUGE discrepency. 
That is very good you spotted that, because things like this happen in one translation to the next. I have gone and checked the KJV, and your are right they say different from the NKJV and the NIV, Eng version, and RSV and they all say these stopped prophesying.
I would trust the The NEW KING JAMES which says "
NKJV say: 25 Then the Lord came down in the cloud, and spoke to him, and took of the Spirit that was upon him, and placed the same upon the seventy elders; and it happened, when the Spirit rested upon them, that they prophesied, although they never did so again.
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Nu 11:24-25
the Thomas Nelson says they did not prophesy again, so I would have to say they found the error in the Old King James and fixed it correctly in the NEW KING JAMES VERSION, wouldn't you? All the other translations I checked show it to be the same "they no longer prophesied".
I do thank you Whirlwind because some times there are errors in one translation or another and it is good to have a variety of them available for reference checking if needed...and this time it was needed..lol I will have to stand on they ceased from prophesying. lol
I very much appreciate your bringing this up because it helps us all to check these things out when a translation differs from others.
I quoted [Numbers 11:25] from the on-line Bible Gateway, so I didn't refer to the notes on the verse in my Companion Bible...and
often regret not doing so. This morning I did as I should have done to see why the discrepency was there. Regarding how it is written in the KJV, "
the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease." E.W. Bullinger wrote...."
Did not cease," in Hebrew it is "did not add" meaning "did not add any more or again after that day."
I'm not sure how to understand that. Is it that they
never again prophesied or were
not given new things, anything else added to what they were to say? Bullinger gives a couple of examples on the meaning behind the phrase, one of which is....
- Deuteronomy 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and He added no more. And He wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
To me, it isn't that
the gift of prophecy was taken from the seventy (
for He tells us "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." [Rom.11:29]) and that they never again prophesied but meant that no more was added to their prophecy. I take that to mean that His prophets today have been given what is written and that is what they are given to understand....nothing new, for He said...."
I have foretold you all things" [Mark 13:23].
Anyway...that's something to consider in all this. So much to understand in that one little phrase "
did not cease" or "
did not add."
To say you are not a prophet isn't correct for...you are. Our Father through Paul tells us....
- 1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Some, as you, are given to see visions and others not. I don't. I don't dream dreams or see the future but He speaks to me through His Word. He reveals. The definition of a prophet is....
- Blue Letter Bible Lexicon...
to prophesy, to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspirations, to predict
a) to prophesy
b) with the idea of foretelling future events pertaining esp. to the kingdom of God
c) to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation
d) to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
1) under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others
e) to act as a prophet, discharge the prophetic office
So, to prophesy isn't only in telling of future events but is speaking things that only His Spirit can reveal...and that is done with the written word. The Divine inspiration of His Word.
I appreciate your posts and warnings. Although we differ in that I believe the tribulation is a time of great deception and spiritual warfare instead of physical torture I do agree it is very close if not upon us. I would love to hear more about your personal experiences on these topics.
Thanks Whirlwind, but I am only a believer with the gift of prophecy which Paul talks about, the dictionary I will disagree with. A prophet comes from God and is given that office, I am just a believer like you, who our Lord chose to send his message. I have never in all my years received a message like this from the Lord, I think prophets come forth at birth. lol
The message came from the Lord and what the Lord means by it is written for us in the bible. The fear of tribulation is for those who have opposed the Lord who carry his name and have trampled the blood of the covenant, both Jew and Christian. We who know the Lord and his goodness know he will be with us through this as he has told me these things and will be with me. We do not have to fear these who bring tribulation, only respect them, as the Lord will deliver us from them in His time and we are to endure patiently...Rev 13:19-10
Where Jesus says in Matt 9:24 many will leave the faith when persecutions set in, has to do with their not knowing the Lord and they are not able to trust him to bring them through. It is not gloom and doom for those who know the Lord, it is trouble for those who claim him and do not know him.
Jesus says in Rev 12:11 they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, they did not love their lives so much to shrink from death.
We are going into a time of the Beast power and he will oppose us as we have been told in Dan 7:25 and Rev 13:7, but the LORD says he will be with us and will answer our prayers and talk to us in these times in many places in the bible. I believe the Lord and trust Him to guide me through this time He has foretold of in the bible.
It is my sincere hope you will be encouraged know we will all be delivered form this in God's time and to trust the Lord in these times that are fast approaching us. Know that the Lord is with you and me and all who love him and will not forsake us who have been faithful to him...he is not that way. When we are faced with adversity from a countryman or held prisoner by our country, we know our Lord is with us and will deliver us in times of trouble.
The apostles, disciples all of God's people, Abraham, Daniel, etc where delivered by God in their times of trouble, captivity and war, we also will be delivered in the times of trouble because our Lord is with us. The message has been given to us that we are not taken off guard when it comes.
In Christ's love
Vickie
I agree Vickie....well said!
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