Salvation

[Adullam]

There are basically 2 approaches to salvation we see today.

1- The popular modern approach is to believe that Jesus died for individuals and that the blood of Christ covers all sins for all time. In this view it is the death of Christ that counts. He died only for Christians they believe. It is the blood of Christ that saves in this view. The individual decides whether he/she is saved or not based on their own belief and decision. This makes salvation a one-time event. It becomes an unconditional salvation. Obedience is not required. Jesus did all in the past. Grace is seen as continuous mercy for the chosen. God's wrath is seen as falling on all those who don't accept God's finished work.

2-The apostolic viewpoint is to believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world and that the blood of Christ covers PAST sins in they that believe. In this view it is the life of Christ that saves. It isn't the blood of Christ that saves but the cross in this view. IF one continues to walk in the life of Christ then that one is saved by so doing. If one stops or draws back into the flesh, then salvation is not attained. One must run lawfully in the Spirit to obtain the promises or else be disqualified. This makes salvation a process and a race. This salvation is conditional on continued abiding in Christ who is our life. Grace is God's power in us to fulfill all righteousness making us blameless before Him.

[dgbygrace]

That is not the only two viewpoints...just the two extremes I think.

The third is in the middle.  Jesus' death and ressurrection gives us forgiveness, then the work of the Holy Spirit keeps, protects, and guides us in living as Christ lives and how we are meant to.

Philippians 1:6 (Amplified Bible)
6And I am convinced and sure of this very thing, that He Who began a good work in you will continue until the day of Jesus Christ [right up to the time of His return], developing [that good work] and perfecting and bringing it to full completion in you.

   

[Adullam]

That is not the only two viewpoints...just the two extremes I think.

The third is in the middle.  Jesus' death and ressurrection gives us forgiveness, then the work of the Holy Spirit keeps, protects, and guides us in living as Christ lives and how we are meant to.

Philippians 1:6 (Amplified Bible)
6And I am convinced and sure of this very thing, that He Who began a good work in you will continue until the day of Jesus Christ [right up to the time of His return], developing [that good work] and perfecting and bringing it to full completion in you.

    

Do you believe the blood of Christ already covers you for future sins? Are you responsible to be obedient or is that optional? Most do not claim the extreme view as you say...but they act on it nevertheless: that is, unless they are running the race of faith with determination.

We operate in one of the 2 views in my view. We may sashay between them, but we must ultimately follow one way or the other.

There is death and there is life.....a third possibility in between???...maybe in the process of ????

This is a serious matter for us to consider. The enemy will try to frustrate the grace of God at every turn.

Some believe that the grace of God is "unmerited favour." But that is the definition of mercy. Grace is the divine influence and power we experience through resurrection life.

[Adullam]

   

Heb. 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
(Hab 2:4)


   

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


Here we see the salvation process. If we draw back we are not counted with they that believe.

[dgbygrace]

That is not the only two viewpoints...just the two extremes I think.

The third is in the middle.  Jesus' death and ressurrection gives us forgiveness, then the work of the Holy Spirit keeps, protects, and guides us in living as Christ lives and how we are meant to.

Philippians 1:6 (Amplified Bible)
6And I am convinced and sure of this very thing, that He Who began a good work in you will continue until the day of Jesus Christ [right up to the time of His return], developing [that good work] and perfecting and bringing it to full completion in you.

    

Do you believe the blood of Christ already covers you for future sins? Are you responsible to be obedient or is that optional? Most do not claim the extreme view as you say...but they act on it nevertheless: that is, unless they are running the race of faith with determination.

We operate in one of the 2 views in my view. We may sashay between them, but we must ultimately follow one way or the other.

There is death and there is life.....a third possibility in between???...maybe in the process of ????

This is a serious matter for us to consider. The enemy will try to frustrate the grace of God at every turn.

Some believe that the grace of God is "unmerited favour." But that is the definition of mercy. Grace is the divine influence and power we experience through resurrection life.

...

Good points and questions...it IS a serious matter, the most serious.  I don't believe there is a third possibility.

Your first question...I am hesitant to say this but yes I do believe His blood covers even future sins.  But are we responsible to be obedient?  YES OF COURSE!  I just think being able to be obedient requires the help and power of the Holy Spirit.  On our own we would fail every time.  But I think He knows the heart.  If there is some kind of response of "want" to He provides the power to do so...

I personally don't understand the idea of "drawing back" (I'm not arguing that...) I just don't understand how anyone can "taste and see, His goodness" and then decide to turn back...

[RoseofSharon]

That is not the only two viewpoints...just the two extremes I think.

The third is in the middle.  Jesus' death and ressurrection gives us forgiveness, then the work of the Holy Spirit keeps, protects, and guides us in living as Christ lives and how we are meant to.

Philippians 1:6 (Amplified Bible)
6And I am convinced and sure of this very thing, that He Who began a good work in you will continue until the day of Jesus Christ [right up to the time of His return], developing [that good work] and perfecting and bringing it to full completion in you.

   

Do you believe the blood of Christ already covers you for future sins? Are you responsible to be obedient or is that optional? Most do not claim the extreme view as you say...but they act on it nevertheless: that is, unless they are running the race of faith with determination.

We operate in one of the 2 views in my view. We may sashay between them, but we must ultimately follow one way or the other.

There is death and there is life.....a third possibility in between???...maybe in the process of ????

This is a serious matter for us to consider. The enemy will try to frustrate the grace of God at every turn.

Some believe that the grace of God is "unmerited favour." But that is the definition of mercy. Grace is the divine influence and power we experience through resurrection life.

...

Good points and questions...it IS a serious matter, the most serious.  I don't believe there is a third possibility.

Your first question...I am hesitant to say this but yes I do believe His blood covers even future sins.  But are we responsible to be obedient?  YES OF COURSE!  I just think being able to be obedient requires the help and power of the Holy Spirit.  On our own we would fail every time.  But I think He knows the heart.  If there is some kind of response of "want" to He provides the power to do so...

I personally don't understand the idea of "drawing back" (I'm not arguing that...) I just don't understand how anyone can "taste and see, His goodness" and then decide to turn back...

None who truly run the race ever will understand how someone could turn back. However there are those who in the heat of the moment or while things are going well will come to Christ and will start their walk, but the minute things get tough the price is too high, and they lose their faith, or simply compromise, and then turn back....... Very similar to a child who sees a runner doing the 800m and making it look easy and they want the glory and that gold medal that the runner has, and so they start running at school and they enjoy running, but as it gets more serious and they have to run longer and longer and they have to run through being uncomfortable, and have to watch what they eat to keep their body in good shape while their friends are eating what they like etc, two children who started running at the same time could have very different outcomes - one may be determined and find the reward greater than the sacrifice, while the other will find the sacrifice too great and will give up. So with Salvation. Many start the race, but find that though God is good, and they have tasted His goodness, the sacrifices that are necessary to follow Christ become too great and many will leave the way looking for an easier life.....

[Adullam]

If we look at the parable of the sower we see that certainly the cares of this life can easily choke out the purpose of God in us.

But I agree that if one is truly apprehended of God, then how can one turn away from seeking first the kingdom. Nevertheless it happens!

[tsth]

De ja vu................

Grace is the divine influence and power we experience through resurrection life.

ABSOLUTELY!!!


Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.


Grace is so much more than just mercy....it is the revealed power of God in our Savior, The Lord Jesus.


In His Love,
Suzanne

[tsth]

Some believe that the grace of God is "unmerited favour." But that is the definition of mercy. Grace is the divine influence and power we experience through resurrection life.

With regard to "grace" and "fear":


Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.



In His Love,
Suzanne

[cizz]

Heb. 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
(Hab 2:4)


   

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


Here we see the salvation process. If we draw back we are not counted with they that believe.

Brother I believe I just learned a lesson from what you have posted here! When I looked up the verse and the meaning of 'draw back' it spoke volumes to me and my heart    YIKS! I have been doing this a lot! 

Strong's G5288 - hypostellō

1) to draw back, let down, lower

   *a) to withdraw: of a timid person

2) to withdraw one's self, i.e. to be timid, to cover, shrink

   *a) of those who from timidity hesitate to avow what they believe

   *b.) to be unwilling to utter from fear

   *c) to shrink from declaring, to conceal, dissemble

Help me correct this in myself!     Thanks for posting it! 

[Adullam]

Heb. 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
(Hab 2:4)


   

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


Here we see the salvation process. If we draw back we are not counted with they that believe.

Brother I believe I just learned a lesson from what you have posted here! When I looked up the verse and the meaning of 'draw back' it spoke volumes to me and my heart    YIKS! I have been doing this a lot! 

Strong's G5288 - hypostellō

1) to draw back, let down, lower

   *a) to withdraw: of a timid person

2) to withdraw one's self, i.e. to be timid, to cover, shrink

   *a) of those who from timidity hesitate to avow what they believe

   *b.) to be unwilling to utter from fear

   *c) to shrink from declaring, to conceal, dissemble

Help me correct this in myself!     Thanks for posting it! 

We all need reminding, and encouragement! 

[me2lord]

We must not draw back as God admonishes us through the Hebrew writer to  those in Christ because it will not please the Lord.  Heb 10:38

I understand this means to have faith in the times of testing, what ever this may encompass in our Christian walk.  We can displease the Lord and suffer greatly for it...not good.

In Christ

[dgbygrace]

Found this as a footnote to the Hebrews verse you referenced...

Habakkuk 2:

4 "See, he is puffed up;
       his desires are not upright—
       but the righteous will live by his faith [a] -

[Adullam]

 here is a hard verse concerning the danger of drawing back...came across this yesterday.

Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. 1Tim. 5:12