Author Topic: Re: Salvation/ creating images of idols from fear  (Read 229 times)

Offline dgbygrace

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 509
Re: Salvation/ creating images of idols from fear
« on: July 08, 2010, 02:27:46 am »
Amen!

So, fear.  It kind of bothers me when people come across like we are   supposed to be afraid.  i.e. I see so many slam another for things they are afraid of.  I totally agree that we are supposed to stay in the light.  But I don't believe we are supposed to jump every time someone says "boo".  I have watched others condemn people for being "occultic" for discussing ideas they aren't comfortable...and one person (ok to say?) said to me once that fear can be made into an idol.  Our Lord showed me some on that one.  Truly fearing God alone...we don't have to be afraid all the time...and not just an excuse to go ahead and "sin" anyway...I don't want to sin.  But I do really like being confidently safe and secure.

Any thoughts??
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 06:24:38 pm by cizz »
The only true work of art is a human soul,
all else is but a reflection

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Offline cizz

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Salvation/ creating iamges of idols from fear
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 07:31:23 am »
Quote
Amen!

So, fear.  It kind of bothers me when people come across like we are   supposed to be afraid.  i.e. I see so many slam another for things they are afraid of.  I totally agree that we are supposed to stay in the light.  But I don't believe we are supposed to jump every time someone says "boo".  I have watched others condemn people for being "occultic" for discussing ideas they aren't comfortable...and one person (ok to say?) said to me once that fear can be made into an idol.  Our Lord showed me some on that one.  Truly fearing God alone...we don't have to be afraid all the time...and not just an excuse to go ahead and "sin" anyway...I don't want to sin.  But I do really like being confidently safe and secure.

Any thoughts??

and one person (ok to say?) said to me once that fear can be made into an idol.

Not the 'fear' so much as that which we place our fear/s in...the thing we fear  grin

In the book of Malachi, chapter 1

Mal 1:6     ¶     A son honoureth [his] father, and a servant his master: if then I [be] a father, where [is] mine honour? and if I [be] a master, where [is] my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Mal 1:7           Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD [is] contemptible.  (Note worthy: they were saying...)

The words 'despised' and 'contemptible' can also mean 'worthless'

How can we make God's name worthless, how can we pollute His alter? (We make spiritual sacrifices now) How can we say the table of the Lord is worthless? The ones that Malachi brought this message to seem to be blind to how they were doing these things... huh

They were going  butbutbut  huh   :what: or at least Malachi made them sound that way!  grin

Offline cizz

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Salvation/ creating images of idols from fear
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 07:12:00 pm »
Lets see if the Lord will help me put together what I'm trying to say and convey  :character0009:

Gen 11:1     And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.


Language and speech are two different, yet related words in meanings (almost twins but yet still separate)...

Language   http://www.answers.com/topic/language

* Communication of thoughts and feelings through a system of arbitrary signals, such as voice sounds, gestures, or written symbols.

* Such a system including its rules for combining its components, such as words.

Speech  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/speech

*  The faculty or act of speaking.

*The faculty or act of expressing or describing thoughts, feelings, or perceptions by the articulation of words.


Speech is more associated with sound:  voice, articulation, fluency

Where as language is associated with rules of the gestures, words, signs, etc.. and how they are used and utilized..

Gen 11:1     And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

This verse is saying that they not only had one language (sets of words or symbols), but a set and single standard of expressing with these words. One understanding! So why would the Lord confound them on this if they were all talking and thinking in one unified way?  huh

Well why do some dread, what is it called? NWO? One world under one government...

Gen 11:4      And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

One name  huh

Gen 11:6     And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.


This verse holds a key to understanding... Why does prayer work when more than one comes together and agree on it???   :innocent:

and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. < What is an image and just how much life and power can a group of many cause the image to 'seem' to live...

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Offline cizz

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Salvation/ creating images of idols from fear
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2010, 07:21:14 pm »
Rev 17:8     The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Offline cizz

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Salvation/ creating images of idols from fear
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 08:13:59 pm »
Mal 1:6    A son honoureth [his] father, and a servant his master: if then I [be] a father, where [is] mine honour? and if I [be] a master, where [is] my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Mal 1:7  Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD [is] contemptible.

"And ye say" along with "In that ye say" < Language and Speech

What is being expressed, what message are we sending with the words we use...in this case, Malachi told them that their language and speech conveyed a message saying to others that the Lord's table was 'worthless' and they seemed to be dumbfounded on exactly how they were doing that.  huh
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 08:17:36 pm by cizz »

Offline cizz

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Salvation/ creating images of idols from fear
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2010, 02:17:47 am »
Interesting to note this verse:

Gen 11:9  Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Dan 12:7     And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

Why does the Lord scatter the power of the holy people? scatter the power  <and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Because they have one language and speech  < one that pollutes the bread upon His altar and makes His name and His table 'worthless'

I did not understand this until my own son debated the 'worthlessness' of God with me! My son says gods and religion are for ignorant, superstitious and cowardly people that are too afraid to face the fact that we live and die and are subject to whatever is between those two. You can image my reaction and emotions to this  huh :'( cz048

I can't make my son believe anything, the most I can do is try to listen to him explain his reasoning for such understanding. That was hard and a lesson in its self, trying to pay attention and listen while the only thing running through my mind is how I'm a failure at being a good mother  :'(  I couldn't even teach my child the one thing he needed the most, to have faith and hope in God.  Instead of me teaching him, he taught me and I have since learned that it is not what I make my child do that trains him, it is the example and my own way of living that trains him. So we have learned to listen to each other so we can learn from each other...

These are my sons words at that time, if there is a God, He is a pitiful excuse for one (Note: my son has heard of the Christian God all his life, so this is the God he is referring to)  I ask him, how so? He brings up satan at this point and says well from what I'm hearing satan and God are at war and God is losing big time, then he goes into to telling me I would be better off, if I just had to have a God, to choose the most powerful one  huh :sad0147: huh

Being mom! I tried to stay calm as I asked the all famous question "WHO TAUGHT YOU THAT!"  :protest:   :rtfm:
 
His answer, every person I have ever heard preach and teach about God, like grandma (from both sides of the family, dad, Sunday school teachers, and he just kept naming...  cz047  I asked him if these people actually said that satan was more powerful than God? He said, that it was the only conclusion anyone with any sense could draw from what they teach and preach.  When I tried to explain that this was not so and started to tell him who and what I had learned satan was, that God actually created satan as a...that is as far as I made it with explaining, he cut me off with laughing himself to tears and when I demanded to know what was so funny, he said I had just made God sound even more pathetic, by saying that God created a Frankenstein that he could not control...

I was clueless as to what to say at this point and God wasn't giving me no help or hint what to say or do. So I just listened. It broke my heart listening and I realized that it would not have mattered what I tried to make my children believe, there is a world out there that is sending a polluted message out on every corner that says we have and are created by a 'wimp of a God' I would rather my son continue to believe that gods and devils are nothing more than myths then to have him bow a need to this 'image' that so many are carelessly and absent minded-ly creating.   

It hasn't been too long ago that my son was moved to come back and ask me, why I study and read the bible, he pointed out that I was not like other Christians. I never speak of what is written in the book unless I am asked and even then I will not push myself to teach or preach or try to get someone else to believe anything. As he says I never say 'you should or shouldn't' and he laughs that when others are spreading the word, the 'direr message' as he calls it, of you have to! and when they look to me to agree I say nothing and they never seem to notice, just keep right on talking and spouting.

I explained to him that I do believe and have faith and hope in God. I told him if he wanted me to discuss this with him, then he would have to curb his laughing and interruptions until I was finished. When I finished telling him of the God that I believed and trusted in, he sat quietly saying wow, wow and then he said that is not the same God that so many others are talking about and he asked me if what I told him was true...My answer to him, read the bible and decide for yourself.   

Offline cizz

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Salvation/ creating images of idols from fear
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2010, 04:13:42 am »
2Ki 17:33      They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.

2Ki 17:34      Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel;

2Ki 17:35      With whom the LORD had made a covenant, and charged them, saying, Ye shall not fear other gods, nor bow yourselves to them, nor serve them, nor sacrifice to them:

2Ki 17:36      But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.

2Ki 17:37      And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.


2Ki 17:38      And the covenant that I have made with you ye shall not forget; neither shall ye fear other gods.

2Ki 17:39      But the LORD your God ye shall fear; and he shall deliver you out of the hand of all your enemies.

2Ki 17:40      Howbeit they did not hearken, but they did after their former manner.

2Ki 17:41      So these nations feared the LORD, and served their graven images, both their children, and their children's children: as did their fathers, so do they unto this day.


Have you noticed the theme here in these verses  huh  They feared the Lord, but yet served their graven images Are these verses saying something contradictory? Or are they saying that these people were not grasping and understanding what they were doing?

Offline cizz

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Salvation/ creating images of idols from fear
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2010, 10:08:13 pm »
Isa 29:13     ¶     Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Offline me2lord

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: USA
Re: Salvation/ creating images of idols from fear
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2010, 01:13:08 pm »
Any thoughts??


FEAR. The Bible uses numerous words to denote fear. The most common of these (giving the noun forms) are Heb. yir’â, ‘reverence’; Heb. paḥaḏ, dread’, ‘fear’; Gk. phobos, ‘fear’, ‘terror’. Theologically, four main categories can be suggested.


There is a good fear that is necessary and keeps us on the right path...a healthy fear of God..  Reverence of who and what God is as we are his creation, he is not our creation. ....

He designed us for HIS PLEASURE  not our Pleasure...yet we have great pleasure when we abide in HIS Laws of LOVE...

There is a fear of the Lord in His anger against those who destroy others...and do evil...the entire bible speaks about the terror to come on those who continue to be wicked and do evil...and these have no fear of God...funny how that works...we who love the Lord have a fear of God out of reverence for HIM as our maker...and these who do evil...have NO FEAR OF GOD... :inlove:

Hope that was helpful ... I have a fearful reverence for who HE IS... cz035

In Christ's love
the father said he was sending the tribulation through the seed of Ishmael  and they are camped around us now.  Trust the Lord in the times of trouble that is near to all of us.   The Lord is coming.