"altar to burn incense upon"

[cizz]

Okay, bare with me on this..

In the bible it talks about parents that caused their children to go into the fire of Molech,

Jer 32:35     And they built the high places of Baal, which [are] in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through [the fire] unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Hinnom, in the valley of the son of Hinnom...

2Ki 23:10     And he defiled Topheth, which [is] in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.

Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom...


couple of things to notice in these verses...valley of the son and valley of the children

Topheth and Hinnom...

"place of fire"  +  "lamentation"

So we have a place of fire which is in the valley of the children of lamentation...


My question is, can we view this pagan practice in/as a spiritual pattern or shadow? Knowing we do not burn our children outwardly    Do we burn them inwardly? and what are our inwardly children


Exd 30:1     And thou shalt make an altar to burn incense upon: [of] shittim wood shalt thou make it.




 

[cizz]

Lets take a look at "incense"    and we need a pattern for this...we need a parent...

Abraham.... Nah! His third wife...

Keturah = "incense"

So lets see who her children are  

Gen 25:2     And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

1Ch 1:32     Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.


Okay, so what are we going to burn on the altar...

Exd 30:7     And Aaron shall burn thereon sweet incense every morning: when he dresseth the lamps, he shall burn incense upon it.

Exd 30:8     And when Aaron lighteth the lamps at even, he shall burn incense upon it, a perpetual incense before the LORD throughout your generations.

Exd 30:9     Ye shall offer no strange incense thereon, nor burnt sacrifice, nor meat offering; neither shall ye pour drink offering thereon.

First child into the flame:   (That just don't sound right!  ) but lets go with it!  

Zimran = "musician"

Psa 4:1     [[To the chief Musician  on Neginoth, A Psalm of David.]] Hear me when I call, O God of my righteousness: thou hast enlarged me [when I was] in distress; have mercy upon me, and hear my prayer.

Psa 5:1     [[To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David.]] Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.

Psa 6:1     [[To the chief Musician  on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David.]] O LORD, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.

Psa 8:1     [[To the chief Musician  upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.]] O LORD our Lord, how excellent [is] thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

Psa 9:1     [[To the chief Musician  upon Muthlabben, A Psalm of David.]] I will praise [thee], O LORD, with my whole heart; I will shew forth all thy marvellous works.

Psa 11:1     [[To the chief Musician, [A Psalm] of David.]] In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee [as] a bird to your mountain?

Psa 12:1     [[To the chief Musician  upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David.]] Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

Psa 13:1     [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?

Okay! there are more verses...here is the link if you want to take the time to read them all,

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=musician&t=KJV&sf=5

[cizz]

Second child into the flames,      

Jokshan = "snarer"


Okay from burning our first inward child we know

Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation

Do we lay snares or not?   or does it mean we don't intentionally lay snares for others and we consider the snares laid out for us?  

Exd 10:7     And Pharaoh's servants said unto him, How long shall this man be a snare unto us? let the men go, that they may serve the LORD their God: knowest thou not yet that Egypt is destroyed?

Exd 23:33     They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.

Exd 34:12     Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:

Jdg 2:3     Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be [as thorns] in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.

Job 18:8     For he is cast into a net by his own feet, and he walketh upon a snare.

Psa 69:22     Let their table become a snare before them: and [that which should have been] for [their] welfare, [let it become] a trap.

Psa 91:3     Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, [and] from the noisome pestilence.

Psa 106:36     And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.

Psa 124:7     Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped.

[cizz]

Third child into the flames!  


Medan = "contention"

Pro 13:10     Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised [is] wisdom.

Pro 17:14     The beginning of strife [is as] when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.

Pro 18:6     A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.

Pro 22:10     Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease.

Jer 15:10     Woe is me, my mother, that thou hast borne me a man of strife and a man of contention to the whole earth! I have neither lent on usury, nor men have lent to me on usury; [yet] every one of them doth curse me.

Hab 1:3     Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause [me] to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence [are] before me: and there are [that] raise up strife and contention.

Phl 1:16     The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

1Th 2:2     But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.

[cizz]

fourth child into the flames 

Midian or Midianite = "strife"

Gen 13:8     And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we [be] brethren.

Num 27:14     For ye rebelled against my commandment in the desert of Zin, in the strife  of the congregation, to sanctify me at the water before their eyes: that [is] the water of Meribah in Kadesh in the wilderness of Zin.

Deu 1:12     How can I myself alone bear your cumbrance, and your burden, and your strife?

2Sa 19:9     And all the people were at strife  throughout all the tribes of Israel, saying, The king saved us out of the hand of our enemies, and he delivered us out of the hand of the Philistines; and now he is fled out of the land for Absalom.

Psa 31:20     Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shalt keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues.

IT WOULD BE GREAT REMINDER AT THIS POINT THAT WE ARE BURNING OUR OWN INWARD CHILDREN....not the out ward kids!  

Psa 55:9     Destroy, O Lord, [and] divide their tongues: for I have seen violence and strife in the city.

Psa 80:6     Thou makest us a strife unto our neighbours: and our enemies laugh among themselves.

Psa 106:32     They angered [him] also at the waters of strife, so that it went ill with Moses for their sakes:

Pro 15:18     A wrathful man stirreth up strife: but [he that is] slow to anger appeaseth strife.      Remind me of peacemaker! 

Pro 16:28     A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends.

Pro 17:1     Better [is] a dry morsel, and quietness therewith, than an house full of sacrifices [with] strife.

Pro 17:14     The beginning of strife [is as] when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.

Pro 17:19     He loveth transgression that loveth strife: [and] he that exalteth his gate seeketh destruction.

Pro 20:3     [It is] an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.

Pro 22:10     Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease.

Pro 26:17     He that passeth by, [and] meddleth with strife [belonging] not to him, [is like] one that taketh a dog by the ears.

Pro 26:20     Where no wood is, [there] the fire goeth out: so where [there is] no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.

Pro 28:25     He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.

Pro 29:22     An angry man stirreth up strife, and a furious man aboundeth in transgression.

Pro 30:33     Surely the churning of milk bringeth forth butter, and the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood: so the forcing of wrath bringeth forth strife.

[cizz]

Fifth child into the flames 

Ishbak = "he releases"

Deu 15:1     At the end of [every] seven years thou shalt make a release.

Deu 15:2     And this [is] the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth [ought] unto his neighbour shall release [it]; he shall not exact [it] of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD'S release.

Deu 15:3     Of a foreigner thou mayest exact [it again]: but [that] which is thine with thy brother thine hand shall release;

Deu 15:9     Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee.

Deu 31:10     And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of [every] seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

Est 2:18     Then the king made a great feast unto all his princes and his servants, [even] Esther's feast; and he made a release to the provinces, and gave gifts, according to the state of the king.

Mat 27:15     Now at [that] feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner, whom they would.

Mat 27:17     Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ?

Mat 27:21     The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.

Mar 15:9     But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

Mar 15:11     But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.

Luk 23:16     I will therefore chastise him, and release [him].

Luk 23:17     (For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)

Luk 23:18     And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this [man], and release unto us Barabbas:

Luk 23:20     Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.

Jhn 18:39     But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

Jhn 19:10     Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?

Jhn 19:12     And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release  him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

This one is a mystery to be pondered and considered in every way     

[cizz]

Sixth child into the flames 

Shuah = "wealth"

(QUICK NOTE! refer to fifth child  : )

 Gen 34:29     And all their wealth, and all their little ones, and their wives took they captive, and spoiled even all that [was] in the house.

Deu 8:17     And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of [mine] hand hath gotten me this wealth.

Deu 8:18     But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for [it is] he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as [it is] this day.

Rth 2:1     And Naomi had a kinsman of her husband's, a mighty man of wealth, of the family of Elimelech; and his name [was] Boaz.

1Sa 2:32     And thou shalt see an enemy [in my] habitation, in all [the wealth] which [God] shall give Israel: and there shall not be an old man in thine house for ever.

2Ki 15:20     And Menahem exacted the money of Israel, [even] of all the mighty men of wealth, of each man fifty shekels of silver, to give to the king of Assyria. So the king of Assyria turned back, and stayed not there in the land.

2Ch 1:11     And God said to Solomon, Because this was in thine heart, and thou hast not asked riches, wealth, or honour, nor the life of thine enemies, neither yet hast asked long life; but hast asked wisdom and knowledge for thyself, that thou mayest judge my people, over whom I have made thee king:

2Ch 1:12     Wisdom and knowledge [is] granted unto thee; and I will give thee riches, and wealth, and honour, such as none of the kings have had that [have been] before thee, neither shall there any after thee have the like.

Ezr 9:12     Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave [it] for an inheritance to your children for ever.

Est 10:3     For Mordecai the Jew [was] next unto king Ahasuerus, and great among the Jews, and accepted of the multitude of his brethren, seeking the wealth of his people, and speaking peace to all his seed.

Job 21:13     They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave.

Psa 44:12     Thou sellest thy people for nought, and dost not increase [thy wealth] by their price.

Psa 49:6     They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;

Psa 49:10     For he seeth [that] wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others.

Psa 112:3     Wealth and riches [shall be] in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.

Pro 5:10     Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours [be] in the house of a stranger;

Pro 10:15     The rich man's wealth [is] his strong city: the destruction of the poor [is] their poverty.

Pro 13:11     Wealth [gotten] by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labour shall increase.

Pro 13:22     A good [man] leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner [is] laid up for the just.

Pro 18:11     The rich man's wealth [is] his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit.

Pro 19:4     Wealth maketh many friends; but the poor is separated from his neighbour.

Ecc 5:19     Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this [is] the gift of God.

Ecc 6:2     A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this [is] vanity, and it [is] an evil disease.

Zec 14:14     And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

Act 19:25     Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth.

1Cr 10:24     Let no man seek his own, but every man another's [wealth].

[cizz]

 Okay that is the children to be burned as incense on the altar of our hearts, and the Lord made us the persist that attends that altar...you are the only one that goes into that alter...

But!   we still have two more kids to look at!  

1Ch 1:32     Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.  

wonder what they are?  

Sheba = "seven" or "an oath"

Dedan = "low country"


Eze 38:13     Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

    Good questions!  

[cizz]

Oh and by the way, the word Molech....Molech = "king"   

[dgbygrace]

The "time of incense"

 5THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

 6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 7And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

 8And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,

 9According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

 10And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.

The Amplified version says "hour":

10And all the throng of people were praying outside [in the court] at the hour of incense [burning].


So I have been thinking, how do we burn these children in ourselves?  How do we offer up the pleasing aroma to our Lord?

Does God give us each these "hours of prayer" where it is our opportunity to place that child, i.e. Medan = "contention", on the alter? And if we choose to do that rather than continuing in our own feelings and reactions...it is then that we do raise the incense to Him?  Like choosing to "release" rather then demand.  We lay this child on the alter of our heart.  Of course prayer accompanies that as the only way we have the power to be righteous is through Him and Christ in us. So, when by faith and prayer we agree with Him and give our natural desires for contention, or wealth, or whatever to Him it becomes our "hour of incense".

[cizz]

Sister, thank you for adding the awesome questions!  


Sheba = "seven" or "an oath"

Dedan = "low country"


Lets start with the last one first...

Dedan, we don't seem to get much from the meaning of the name, so lets look at the scriptures.

Jer 49:8 Flee ye, turn back , dwell deep , O inhabitants of Dedan; for I will bring the calamity of Esau upon him, the time [that] I will visit him.

Eze 25:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also stretch out mine hand upon Edom, and will cut off man and beast from it; and I will make it desolate from Teman; and they of Dedan shall fall by the sword.

Eze 27:15 The men of Dedan [were] thy merchants ; many isles [were] the merchandise of thine hand: they brought thee [for] a present horns of ivory and ebony.

Eze 27:20 Dedan [was] thy merchant in precious clothes for chariots.

Eze 38:13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

Merchant :   do I try to buy or sell what the Lord has given...????

[cizz]

Sheba = "seven" or "an oath"

It's interesting to note that Sheba is also a female in our bibles 

Okay, "oath"     This takes some reading and overtime with considering  , so again, in reverse order, I am pulling verses from 'looking at the last first'...NT to OT

Jam 5:12  But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and [your] nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.   


Hbr 7:28     For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.


Hbr 7:20     And inasmuch as not without an oath [he was made priest]:

Hbr 7:21     (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)


Hbr 6:16     For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation [is] to them an end of all strife.

Hbr 6:17     Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath:


Act 23:21     But do not thou yield unto them: for there lie in wait for him of them more than forty men, which have bound themselves with an oath, that they will neither eat nor drink till they have killed him: and now are they ready, looking for a promise from thee.

Act 2:30     Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;


Just curious...Have you noticed we have went from burning incense in the sense of 'lamenting and praying' (our music) to burning incense in the form of listening and learning...  which leads into 'Praise'


Luk 1:73     The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Mar 6:26     And the king was exceeding sorry; [yet] for his oath's sake, and for their sakes which sat with him, he would not reject her.

Mat 26:72     And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.

Mat 14:9     And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded [it] to be given [her].

Mat 14:7     Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask.

Zec 8:17     And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these [are things] that I hate, saith the LORD.

[cizz]

So here is where we come to sisters awesome post and the new testament burning incense...

There is only ONE oath and that Oath is our Lord...

The "time of incense"

 5THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

 6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 7And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

 8And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,

 9According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

 10And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.

The Amplified version says "hour":

10And all the throng of people were praying outside [in the court] at the hour of incense [burning].


So I have been thinking, how do we burn these children in ourselves?  How do we offer up the pleasing aroma to our Lord?

Does God give us each these "hours of prayer" where it is our opportunity to place that child, i.e. Medan = "contention", on the alter? And if we choose to do that rather than continuing in our own feelings and reactions...it is then that we do raise the incense to Him?  Like choosing to "release" rather then demand.  We lay this child on the alter of our heart.  Of course prayer accompanies that as the only way we have the power to be righteous is through Him and Christ in us. So, when by faith and prayer we agree with Him and give our natural desires for contention, or wealth, or whatever to Him it becomes our "hour of incense".

[cizz]

Bare with me and I will try to share what I'm talking about   Lets look at the names and the meanings of the names...

Luk 1:5     There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.

There was in the days of Herod ("heroic"), the king of Judaea ("he shall be praised"), a certain priest named Zacharias ("remembered of Jehovah"), of the course of Abia ("my father is Jah (Jehovah)" : and his wife [was] of Aaron ("light-bringer"), and her name [was] Elisabeth ("oath of God")

Luk 1:6           And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Luk 1:7           And they had no child, because that Elisabeth ("oath of God") was barren, and they both were [now] well stricken in years.

Luk 1:8           And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,

Luk 1:9           According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

Luk 1:10           And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.

Luk 1:11           And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.

Luk 1:12           And when Zacharias ("remembered of Jehovah") saw [him], he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.

Luk 1:13           But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias ("remembered of Jehovah"): for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth ("oath of God") shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John ("Jehovah is a gracious giver").

Luk 1:14           And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

Luk 1:15           For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Luk 1:16           And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.


"Oath" one oath is immutable unchangeable ...forever the same...we can trust that Oath  

Thank you sister for bring what you had! Love you!

[cizz]

Psa 141:2 Let my prayer be set forth before thee [as] incense; [and] the lifting up of my hands [as] the evening sacrifice.

Prayer and Praise...our music