Author Topic: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?  (Read 174 times)

Offline whirlwind

  • Junior
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« on: September 06, 2010, 03:33:47 pm »
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and His disciples into the land of Judaea; and there He tarried with them, and baptized.

  • Who are those He baptized/baptizes? Those that were "with them," His disciples, those that follow Him both in that time and today.


4:1-3 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples,) He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.


  • The only ones Jesus baptizes are "His disciples." It is easier understood if the above comma wasn't placed in the sentence highlighted in blue and is read...."Jesus Himself baptized not but His disciples," for that is what is being said. He only baptizes His disciples. John the Baptist said to Jesus when He presented Himself to be baptized....



Matthew 3:14-15 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest Thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered Him.


  • John was right. He, as a disciple of Christ, was one that could be baptized by the Savior. But, the time wasn't right. At that time the dove had not yet descended. It was after that event that Jesus "baptized His disciples," with the Holy Spirit and fire.

    Again, John said....


Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:


  • So there are two types of baptism. That of John...water baptism/unto repentance and that of Jesus Christ...of the Holy Spirit and fire.


Acts 19:3-5 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


  • They are His disciples for only His disciples are baptized by Christ
.

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Offline dgbygrace

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 509
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 06:15:44 pm »
Good word Whirlwind.
The only true work of art is a human soul,
all else is but a reflection

Offline me2lord

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: USA
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2010, 09:30:51 pm »
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and His disciples into the land of Judaea; and there He tarried with them, and baptized.

  • Who are those He baptized/baptizes? Those that were "with them," His disciples, those that follow Him both in that time and today.
4:1-3 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples,) He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.

  Hi Whirlwind...there is one thing I will share with you that you may understand some things of the bible even better than you do...it is not to read the brackets with input of thoughts that are given in most of the translations after 1995.  The doctrines of the translators are being added to the words of Christ. They are not the words of the direct quotes the Lord gave us... and takes us into their doctrines when we read the bible...when this is stopped the bible open up to a pure untainted truth on what Jesus is saying...

When I was shown this by the Lord  I started crossing out every thing in a bracket or parenthesis in the bible and am so very thankful I have..

Time is drawing near as November is speedily coming and we will soon be removed from out homes for a little while until the beast fulfills the time allotted to him to finish up prophesy and to bring in every lasting righteousness.. The King Jesus...

In Christ's love
Vickie



the father said he was sending the tribulation through the seed of Ishmael  and they are camped around us now.  Trust the Lord in the times of trouble that is near to all of us.   The Lord is coming.

Offline dgbygrace

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 509
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2010, 07:52:50 am »
Sister...that post gave me pause.

I actually like the Amplified version of the Bible.  The whole point to it (or at least what they say) is that they have in parenthesis to give clarity to the original meaning of the words being used.

Thank you for this as I will now be going to our Father and asking about this!
The only true work of art is a human soul,
all else is but a reflection

Offline me2lord

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: USA
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2010, 07:00:33 pm »
Sister...that post gave me pause.

I actually like the Amplified version of the Bible.  The whole point to it (or at least what they say) is that they have in parenthesis to give clarity to the original meaning of the words being used.

Thank you for this as I will now be going to our Father and asking about this!
Absolutely, Praises to the Lord in whom you trust !  Going to the Father to make it known to you and He will...I love that with your eagerness to seek our Father and His Son Jesus in all things..and Our Lord will not let anyone down who comes to them...it is our promise..

The translators do make that statement, but when the words of Jesus said NOT TO ADD "ONE WORD", which they have done in trying to help...they have gone against the Lord's command..and it is not to be taken lightly.

Rev 22:18  I "WARN EVERYONE"  who hears the prophecy of this Book: If "ANYONE ADDS ANYTHING to it" God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from this book of prophecy, 'God will take away from him his share in the tree of LIFE and in the holy city, which are described in this book.


The "VERY WORDS OF GOD" ARE not to be tampered with in adding them into the bible...all parenthesis is man's adding to the bible..and they have been warned..and doctrines are coming into the bible from these that would not otherwise be read or understood by many who simply read the solid word, without addition...there is a big difference that takes place.

When a book has to be written to help God's words be explained...there is something wrong.... because the Holy Spirit teaches us (John 14:26) will open the eyes and show the called out ones his solid words and give "TRUE" understanding..with the entire bible matching up in all matters all speaking the same thing in both old Testament and New...giving a full picture of all things in all areas of God and mankind and his promise... it is real.  

One of the reasons why we have so many different denominations is because of men's teachings of the verses and gathering those into their belief of the verses as this is why we have many who fight against the others because of the teachings of men...not of God...and CF is a perfect example of different teachings and brethren fighting..it is not right nor should doctrines taught lead children into that mindset.

I look forward to your eyes being opened in this matter and you will grow even more in understanding as this takes place....Our Lord Jesus speaks only ONE THING....trust him and listen to the holy spirit sent and given to us to be taught by and led into all truth...

In Christ's love
Vickie
the father said he was sending the tribulation through the seed of Ishmael  and they are camped around us now.  Trust the Lord in the times of trouble that is near to all of us.   The Lord is coming.

Offline whirlwind

  • Junior
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2010, 05:12:49 pm »
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and His disciples into the land of Judaea; and there He tarried with them, and baptized.

  • Who are those He baptized/baptizes? Those that were "with them," His disciples, those that follow Him both in that time and today.
4:1-3 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples,) He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.

  Hi Whirlwind...there is one thing I will share with you that you may understand some things of the bible even better than you do...it is not to read the brackets with input of thoughts that are given in most of the translations after 1995.  The doctrines of the translators are being added to the words of Christ. They are not the words of the direct quotes the Lord gave us... and takes us into their doctrines when we read the bible...when this is stopped the bible open up to a pure untainted truth on what Jesus is saying...

When I was shown this by the Lord  I started crossing out every thing in a bracket or parenthesis in the bible and am so very thankful I have..

Time is drawing near as November is speedily coming and we will soon be removed from out homes for a little while until the beast fulfills the time allotted to him to finish up prophesy and to bring in every lasting righteousness.. The King Jesus...

In Christ's love
Vickie






Good morning Vickie,  cz3310

My understanding of the (brackets) is that it marks a parenthetical sentence or paragraph.  It isn't that it was an addition, or a translators thought, but that it was placed in an incorrect spot.  I was thumbing through the Bible to find where an entire chapter is a parenthetical chapter showing it should be placed either before or after another chapter.  I haven't yet found it but I'll let you know if I do.   

The words printed in italics are changes from the text...additions, etc. and could be discarded.

Offline me2lord

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: USA
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2010, 01:24:12 am »
Quote


Good morning Vickie,  cz3310

My understanding of the (brackets) is that it marks a parenthetical sentence or paragraph.  It isn't that it was an addition, or a translators thought, but that it was placed in an incorrect spot.  I was thumbing through the Bible to find where an entire chapter is a parenthetical chapter showing it should be placed either before or after another chapter.  I haven't yet found it but I'll let you know if I do.    

The words printed in italics are changes from the text...additions, etc. and could be discarded.

In the kjv  they have asterisks (or Italicized ) by a word that is added and some words they did not mark them,  for in the NIV it has been the parenthesis...it is interesting what you say in your quote above...that an entire chapter would be placed in another place...that doesn't sound good..as the words of the Lord are not to be changed out of sequence they have been given..

It is always nice to have others researching to on matters I will share a little on the NIV which I love deeply and use..

In the 1978 edition revised 1983 in my book it has the comment; "as an aid to the reader, italicized sectional headings are inserted  in most of the books.  They are NOT to be regarded as PART of the NIV TEXT, are NOT FOR ORAL READING and are not intended to DICTATE THE INTERPRETATION OF THE SECTIONS THEY HEAD...  Prefaces page xiii  

The headings I have noticed at the beginning of some chapters does not fit the contents of what is being spoken about in that following chapter and the heading should not be there..they NIV was correct for writing the disclaimer..but still they should not have added the sub-titles as even that is against the Lord's command...I am also looking to find the paragraph that speaks on parenthesis  being used in the NIV I use...

Thanks again and I am glad you are seeking for truth in this as well.

In Christ's love
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 01:03:36 pm by me2lord »
the father said he was sending the tribulation through the seed of Ishmael  and they are camped around us now.  Trust the Lord in the times of trouble that is near to all of us.   The Lord is coming.

Offline whirlwind

  • Junior
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2010, 06:15:23 pm »

Quote


Good morning Vickie,  cz3310

My understanding of the (brackets) is that it marks a parenthetical sentence or paragraph.  It isn't that it was an addition, or a translators thought, but that it was placed in an incorrect spot.  I was thumbing through the Bible to find where an entire chapter is a parenthetical chapter showing it should be placed either before or after another chapter.  I haven't yet found it but I'll let you know if I do.   

The words printed in italics are changes from the text...additions, etc. and could be discarded.

In the kjv  they have asterisks by a word that is added and some words they did not mark them,  in the NIV it has been the parenthesis...it is interesting what you say in your quote above...that an entire chapter would be placed in another place...that doesn't sound good..as the words of the Lord are not to be changed out of sequence they have been given..


I'm a KJV girl.  In it the additions are shown in italics and I, as you, tend to discard them.  To my knowledge the () doesn't denote an addition.  The Bible I use, a KJV, Companion Bible - E.W. Bullinger, notes additions, corrections, etc.  No notice was given on the verse we're discussing as being improper. 



Quote
It is always nice to have others researching to on matters I will share a little on the NIV which I love deeply and use..

In the 1978 edition revised 1983 in my book it has the comment; "as an aid to the reader, italicized sectional headings are inserted  in most of the books.  They are NOT to be regarded as PART of the NIV TEXT, are NOT FOR ORAL READING and are not intended to DICTATE THE INTERPRETATION OF THE SECTIONS THEY HEAD...  Prefaces page xiii   

The headings I have noticed at the beginning of some chapters does not fit the contents of what is being spoken about in that following chapter and the heading should not be there..they NIV was correct for writing the disclaimer..but still they should not have added the sub-titles as even that is against the Lord's command...I am also looking to find the paragraph that speaks on parenthesis  being used in the NIV I use...

Thanks again and I am glad you are seeking for truth in this as well.

In Christ's love

Offline whirlwind

  • Junior
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2010, 12:35:04 am »
Vicky, I ran across a parenthetical sentence today.  I don't have time to study it but with a quick glance you may be right.  I hope to have time to give it a better going over tomorrow.

See 'ya then.....Whirlwind cz3310  (I love that smiling autumn leaf...I love fall and winter and cool weather!   to208 )

Offline whirlwind

  • Junior
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2010, 05:17:25 pm »
Late yesterday I came across the following "parenthetical chapter" and saw that a notation was made on it's meaning.  On first glance I thought perhaps this is indeed something added by man, something to be discarded but after further study today I now see it as this:


  • Exodus (18:1 When Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father in law, heard of all that God had done for Moses, and for Israel His Peopke, and that the LORD had brought Israel out of Egypt;

    snip

    18:27 And Moses let his father in law depart; and he went his way into his own land.)


The above is a parenthetical chapter.  It is not designated as such in one copy of the King James (for the brackets are not displayed) but is in the King James, Companion Bible - E.W. Bullinger for Bullinger makes note of it.  The verse which is the subject of this topic is shown in brackets in both publications of the King James, as shown below..... 

  • John 4:1-2  When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized mroe disciples than John, (Though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples,)


Concerning the parenthetical chapter in Exodus, Bullinger commented in a side note.  He said, "This chapter is a parenthesis (Ap.6).  Introduced here because Jethro, though he lived among the Amelekites, yet was not under their curse (17:14-16)."  So, I went to the appendix....

  • Appendix 6, Figures of Speech, states..... Parenthesis; or, Parenthesis (2 Pet.1:19).  Insertion of a word or sentence, parenthetically, which is necessary to explain the context


Well, my question would be...who inserted the word or sentence?  He answered that here...


Figures of Speech


  • It is most important to notice these.  It is absolutely necessary for true interpretation.  God's Word is made up of "words which the Holy Ghost teacheth" (1 Cor.2:13, 1 Thess 2:13, etc.)

    A "figure of speech" relates to the form in which the words are used.  It consists in the fact that a word or words are used out of their ordinary sense, or place, or manner, for the purpose of attracting our attention to what is thus said.  A figure of speech is a designed and legitimate departure from the laws of language, in order to emphasise what is said.  Hence, in such Figures we have the Holy Spirit's own marking, so to speak, of His own words.   This peculiar form or unusual manner may not be true, or so true, to the literal meaning of the words; but it is more true to their real sense, or truer to truthFigures are never used but for the sake of emphasisThey can never, therefore, be ignored. Ignorance of Figures of speech has led to the grossest errors, which have been cause either from taking literally what is figurative, or from taking figuratively what is literal.   
     



From that I understand that man places the parenthesis, the punctuation but the Words are His Words.  Bullinger, who studied the text, notes additions, changes, etc. from the original and also makes note of how they were written, when special attention was placed on certain phrases, etc.  So, instead of us ignoring the parenthetical words, sentences, etc. we are instead to pay special attention to them.  At least...that is my understanding from this.    :blink:

Offline me2lord

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: USA
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2010, 03:54:46 am »
Late yesterday I came across the following "parenthetical chapter" and saw that a notation was made on it's meaning.  On first glance I thought perhaps this is indeed something added by man, something to be discarded but after further study today I now see it as this:
  • Exodus (18:1 When Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father in law, heard of all that God had done for Moses, and for Israel His Peopke, and that the LORD had brought Israel out of Egypt;
    18:27 And Moses let his father in law depart; and he went his way into his own land.)
The above is a parenthetical chapter.  It is not designated as such in one copy of the King James (for the brackets are not displayed) but is in the King James, Companion Bible - E.W. Bullinger for Bullinger makes note of it.  The verse which is the subject of this topic is shown in brackets in both publications of the King James, as shown below.....  
Hello sister,  I know what your saying concerning Exodus, but in that particular chapter there are a lot of words that have been added that are Italicized in that chapter, all that  have been added are 21 words to be exact...as noted in the KJV I am looking at, but there are no parenthesis used.

One of the reason why I use many translations and look into the scriptures because if you read it without the italicized words..it is interesting as it gives a more pure word from the Lord..and I did it with that chapter...

It is interesting they have that many words italicized as these were added in.....are you sure that isn't why they just took it and placed parenthesis from 1-27?
 
Quote

  • John 4:1-2  When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized mroe disciples than John, (Though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples,)


John 4:1-2  When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)



 the parenthesis  makes the content of the first part of the sentence confusing as the Parenthesis contradicts the first half of the sentence.... it is told in the first sentence that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus baptized , the parenthesis refute that statement and it does not fit properly as God's words fit together and are sound.   I would go against any theologian on this matter as it is not sound in thought and all of God's words are as it contradicts what is not parenthesized.  

Take a look at John 3:25-26  as this verse backs up the statement Jesus himself baptized and makes the parenthesized statement of Jesus not baptizing even more out of context and not belonging.

John 3:25-26 25 Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all bare coming to Him!

I have learned through the Holy Spirit that the verses bare witness with the others..and no where does the verses bare witness with the statement Jesus did not baptize but supports the facts that he did.   

Quote


Concerning the parenthetical chapter in Exodus, Bullinger commented in a side note.  He said, "This chapter is a parenthesis (Ap.6).  Introduced here because Jethro, though he lived among the Amelekites, yet was not under their curse (17:14-16)."  So, I went to the appendix....

  • Appendix 6, Figures of Speech, states..... Parenthesis; or, Parenthesis (2 Pet.1:19).  Insertion of a word or sentence, parenthetically, which is necessary to explain the context.  

Well, my question would be...who inserted the word or sentence?  He answered that here...
Figures of Speech

  • It is most important to notice these.  It is absolutely necessary for true interpretation.  God's Word is made up of "words which the Holy Ghost teacheth" (1 Cor.2:13, 1 Thess 2:13, etc.)

    A "figure of speech" relates to the form in which the words are used.  It consists in the fact that a word or words are used out of their ordinary sense, or place, or manner, for the purpose of attracting our attention to what is thus said.  A figure of speech is a designed and legitimate departure from the laws of language, in order to emphasise what is said.  Hence, in such Figures we have the Holy Spirit's own marking, so to speak, of His own words.   This peculiar form or unusual manner may not be true, or so true, to the literal meaning of the words; but it is more true to their real sense, or truer to truth.  Figures are never used but for the sake of emphasis.  They can never, therefore, be ignored. Ignorance of Figures of speech has led to the grossest errors, which have been cause either from taking literally what is figurative, or from taking figuratively what is literal.  
     



From that I understand that man places the parenthesis, the punctuation but the Words are His Words.  Bullinger, who studied the text, notes additions, changes, etc. from the original and also makes note of how they were written, when special attention was placed on certain phrases, etc.  So, instead of us ignoring the parenthetical words, sentences, etc. we are instead to pay special attention to them.  At least...that is my understanding from this.    :blink:

It seems this man has agreed and wrote the "additions, changes, to help the reader grasp more of the word the way HE SEES it in his doctrinal understanding and this is exactly what I am speaking about..The translators have in every translation added words they thought would help the reader to understand what is being said better, but the Lord said NOT TOO and they went right past the instructions given to them..

In what the entire bible says....in studying it these things start to emerge as they start not fitting in with the flow of the Lord's words...such as John 4:1-2
My husband, who is in the room where I am on the web is listening to TV and I want to give more time to this...in the mornings have been good for me, so I plan on coming back on this to continue in this discussion...there is more I believe I can bring though involved in looking into John 4 more and researching it so that you and I both can look at what I can find on it...as it stands right now the contradiction is not right as that parenthesis in the statement given takes away what is established in the beginning of the verse...

In Christ's love
 
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 12:40:00 pm by me2lord »
the father said he was sending the tribulation through the seed of Ishmael  and they are camped around us now.  Trust the Lord in the times of trouble that is near to all of us.   The Lord is coming.

Offline me2lord

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: USA
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2010, 01:00:13 pm »
Good morning as I sit in quietness in these wee morning hours...and the house is quite...to revisit  Jesus baptizing which is said not to have happened in John 4:2 which contradicts John 4:1  is such a perfect choice of verses to bring out the use of adding words in the parenthesis which in fact dispute the words of the very words  in the preceding verse that Jesus did baptize.  

The evidence of Jesus being said to be baptizing in correct as it is mentioned as Jesus baptizing HIS DISCIPLES which John did not qualify to do, but only JESUS.

John 3:25-26  Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all bare coming to Him!

John 3:26  confirms that Jesus did baptize his disciples and others as John did not make disciple for Christ which is proven in Acts where John's disciples where baptized by Jesus disciples later I believe is recorded in the book of Acts..I will look for the verse.

The words of God compliment each other in the same truth and the added verses stating Jesus did not baptize (John 4:2) is man's doing and is incorrect and has been taught by teachers as Jesus not baptizing.     John 4:2 is incorrectly added  as John 3:26 agrees with John 4:1 showing  John 4:2 which is added to the bible to be incorrect.

I believe the truth that Jesus did baptize as all the information given to us supports Jesus did baptize.    I will place my trust in the Holy Spirit which has shown me this morning John 3:26 proving John 4:1 to be truth and I will discord John 4:2 as it has been added and does not flow with God's truth that Jesus baptized as supported by other verses..  :inlove:



Jesus baptized  his disciple as it were necessary their baptism in order to be a disciple of Christ.  John had no authority in the baptism mentioned below.

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that Jesus was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

 As John had no authority in ORDAINING of witnesses OF CHRIST because from John he preached of one to come after him and When Jesus came and was baptizing those who believed he was the Messiah, God's Son as he had HIS FOLLOWERS and the baptism had to start with Jesus baptizing as he was the one baptizing disciples of HIMSELF.  

When the truth of the verses teach us what happened in Jesus baptizing, I will take the verses over the commentaries that say Jesus did not. And when the parenthesis are not backed up in the very words of God throughout HIS WORDS I will NOT ACCEPT WHAT IS ADDED IN.  amen  

In Christ's love
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 01:36:11 pm by me2lord »
the father said he was sending the tribulation through the seed of Ishmael  and they are camped around us now.  Trust the Lord in the times of trouble that is near to all of us.   The Lord is coming.

Offline whirlwind

  • Junior
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2010, 02:31:14 pm »
Late yesterday I came across the following "parenthetical chapter" and saw that a notation was made on it's meaning.  On first glance I thought perhaps this is indeed something added by man, something to be discarded but after further study today I now see it as this:
  • Exodus (18:1 When Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father in law, heard of all that God had done for Moses, and for Israel His Peopke, and that the LORD had brought Israel out of Egypt;
    18:27 And Moses let his father in law depart; and he went his way into his own land.)
The above is a parenthetical chapter.  It is not designated as such in one copy of the King James (for the brackets are not displayed) but is in the King James, Companion Bible - E.W. Bullinger for Bullinger makes note of it.  The verse which is the subject of this topic is shown in brackets in both publications of the King James, as shown below.....  
Hello sister,  I know what your saying concerning Exodus, but in that particular chapter there are a lot of words that have been added that are Italicized in that chapter, all that  have been added are 21 words to be exact...as noted in the KJV I am looking at, but there are no parenthesis used.

One of the reason why I use many translations and look into the scriptures because if you read it without the italicized words..it is interesting as it gives a more pure word from the Lord..and I did it with that chapter...

It is interesting they have that many words italicized as these were added in.....are you sure that isn't why they just took it and placed parenthesis from 1-27?
 
Quote

  • John 4:1-2  When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized mroe disciples than John, (Though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples,)


John 4:1-2  When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)



 the parenthesis  makes the content of the first part of the sentence confusing as the Parenthesis contradicts the first half of the sentence.... it is told in the first sentence that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus baptized , the parenthesis refute that statement and it does not fit properly as God's words fit together and are sound.   I would go against any theologian on this matter as it is not sound in thought and all of God's words are as it contradicts what is not parenthesized.  

Take a look at John 3:25-26  as this verse backs up the statement Jesus himself baptized and makes the parenthesized statement of Jesus not baptizing even more out of context and not belonging.



That was the point of my post.  Jesus does baptize but only baptizes His disciples.  Special attention was given that with the parentheses so it is duly noted.  Without seeing that special phrase, one would think He baptizes everyone and does so with water but....He doesn't.  It is ONLY His Disciples He baptizes and it is ONLY with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The italicized words are added but not the other words.  The parenthesis was added to draw attention to what was being taught.  As Bullinger pointed out, the words many times seem to be out of place (as does "Jesus baptized not") and there is a reason for that.   It isn't that the words enclosed in parenthetical brackets were added, for they weren't, but that in the text words were transcribed showing a difference...something special being said, something to be noted.  As print can't show the difference as does writing, the words are placed in parenthesis to point out....look at what is being said!  As we use bold to emphasis a point...they used parenthesis. 




Quote
John 3:25-26 25 Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all bare coming to Him!

I have learned through the Holy Spirit that the verses bare witness with the others..and no where does the verses bare witness with the statement Jesus did not baptize but supports the facts that he did.   



Jesus does baptize but...not with water.  It is with the Holy Spirit and fire.

  • Matthew 3:11  I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:



Quote
Quote
Concerning the parenthetical chapter in Exodus, Bullinger commented in a side note.  He said, "This chapter is a parenthesis (Ap.6).  Introduced here because Jethro, though he lived among the Amelekites, yet was not under their curse (17:14-16)."  So, I went to the appendix....

  • Appendix 6, Figures of Speech, states..... Parenthesis; or, Parenthesis (2 Pet.1:19).  Insertion of a word or sentence, parenthetically, which is necessary to explain the context.  

Well, my question would be...who inserted the word or sentence?  He answered that here...
Figures of Speech

  • It is most important to notice these.  It is absolutely necessary for true interpretation.  God's Word is made up of "words which the Holy Ghost teacheth" (1 Cor.2:13, 1 Thess 2:13, etc.)

    A "figure of speech" relates to the form in which the words are used.  It consists in the fact that a word or words are used out of their ordinary sense, or place, or manner, for the purpose of attracting our attention to what is thus said.  A figure of speech is a designed and legitimate departure from the laws of language, in order to emphasise what is said.  Hence, in such Figures we have the Holy Spirit's own marking, so to speak, of His own words.   This peculiar form or unusual manner may not be true, or so true, to the literal meaning of the words; but it is more true to their real sense, or truer to truth.  Figures are never used but for the sake of emphasis.  They can never, therefore, be ignored. Ignorance of Figures of speech has led to the grossest errors, which have been cause either from taking literally what is figurative, or from taking figuratively what is literal.  
     



From that I understand that man places the parenthesis, the punctuation but the Words are His Words.  Bullinger, who studied the text, notes additions, changes, etc. from the original and also makes note of how they were written, when special attention was placed on certain phrases, etc.  So, instead of us ignoring the parenthetical words, sentences, etc. we are instead to pay special attention to them.  At least...that is my understanding from this.    :blink:

It seems this man has agreed and wrote the "additions, changes, to help the reader grasp more of the word the way HE SEES it in his doctrinal understanding and this is exactly what I am speaking about..The translators have in every translation added words they thought would help the reader to understand what is being said better, but the Lord said NOT TOO and they went right past the instructions given to them..

In what the entire bible says....in studying it these things start to emerge as they start not fitting in with the flow of the Lord's words...such as John 4:1-2
My husband, who is in the room where I am on the web is listening to TV and I want to give more time to this...in the mornings have been good for me, so I plan on coming back on this to continue in this discussion...there is more I believe I can bring though involved in looking into John 4 more and researching it so that you and I both can look at what I can find on it...as it stands right now the contradiction is not right as that parenthesis in the statement given takes away what is established in the beginning of the verse...

In Christ's love
 


Bullinger didn't rewrite, add or subtract.  The King James is just as it was but he noted all differences from the text.  He just explained why parenthesis was added...to bring attention to a phrase, word, sentence that is important in understanding.  In his words, the Holy Spirit was drawing special attention to those words for our benefit and thus were written in a different manner in the text. 

Offline whirlwind

  • Junior
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2010, 02:45:32 pm »
Good morning as I sit in quietness in these wee morning hours...and the house is quite...to revisit  Jesus baptizing which is said not to have happened in John 4:2 which contradicts John 4:1  is such a perfect choice of verses to bring out the use of adding words in the parenthesis which in fact dispute the words of the very words  in the preceding verse that Jesus did baptize.  

The evidence of Jesus being said to be baptizing in correct as it is mentioned as Jesus baptizing HIS DISCIPLES which John did not qualify to do, but only JESUS.

John 3:25-26  Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all bare coming to Him!

John 3:26  confirms that Jesus did baptize his disciples and others as John did not make disciple for Christ which is proven in Acts where John's disciples where baptized by Jesus disciples later I believe is recorded in the book of Acts..I will look for the verse.


Yes...Jesus did "baptize His disciples."  He still does.   :character0009:  Jesus was then "beyond Jordan" as He is now "beyond Jordan" and He is still baptizing.  He is on the other side anointing us with the Holy Spirit and fire. 



Quote
The words of God compliment each other in the same truth and the added verses stating Jesus did not baptize (John 4:2) is man's doing and is incorrect and has been taught by teachers as Jesus not baptizing.     John 4:2 is incorrectly added  as John 3:26 agrees with John 4:1 showing  John 4:2 which is added to the bible to be incorrect.


The verses weren't added for they aren't italicized.  The brackets are showing that special attention is to be given for better understanding.     



Quote
I believe the truth that Jesus did baptize as all the information given to us supports Jesus did baptize.    I will place my trust in the Holy Spirit which has shown me this morning John 3:26 proving John 4:1 to be truth and I will discord John 4:2 as it has been added and does not flow with God's truth that Jesus baptized as supported by other verses..  :inlove:


Jesus baptized  his disciple as it were necessary their baptism in order to be a disciple of Christ.  John had no authority in the baptism mentioned below.

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that Jesus was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

 As John had no authority in ORDAINING of witnesses OF CHRIST because from John he preached of one to come after him and When Jesus came and was baptizing those who believed he was the Messiah, God's Son as he had HIS FOLLOWERS and the baptism had to start with Jesus baptizing as he was the one baptizing disciples of HIMSELF.  

When the truth of the verses teach us what happened in Jesus baptizing, I will take the verses over the commentaries that say Jesus did not. And when the parenthesis are not backed up in the very words of God throughout HIS WORDS I will NOT ACCEPT WHAT IS ADDED IN.  amen  

In Christ's love



But there is no commentary saying He didn't...nor have I ever heard anyone teach that He didn't baptize.  The words were not added for being in parenthesis doesn't denote that.  Jesus did baptize but, as written, He only baptized His disciples (we too are His disciples) and that baptism is not of water but is of the Holy Spirit and fire. 

I may not be explaining this very well.  :'(  :ashamed0005: 

Offline me2lord

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: USA
Re: Who Is It That Jesus Baptizes?
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2010, 06:57:14 pm »
I love you sister, and your love for the Lord and his words.. :clap:

You presented your stand very well and brought the evidence that sways you in all of this..and I have to say this you presented it well, and maybe I am missing some of the points you presented such as "JESUS did Baptize"..though you say with the spirit and fire...only I believe it was in water also, along with spirit and fire.
 :inlove:

Because of what is I read in John 3:25-27 with verse 26 being a strong statement of Jesus baptizing with water as John did, I will stay with believing Jesus not  only baptized with spirit and fire, but with water also... cz008

The Parenthesis I still believe to be added words into the bible as I have read it in one of my translations ....and I have so many I am not sure which one and I do hope to find it to present it, though I still will use the argument that John 4:2 speaks contradiction against John 4:1 and John 3:26 and against the message of the entire bible that Jesus baptized his disciples in water as he chose them, for his work, and upon his leaving them and ascending into the clouds, they Holy Spirit was given to all men who would believe in the name of Jesus, and they where left with the instructions given to us in Matthew 28:19  go ye therefore into all the world making disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. 

It is not my desire to cause you affliction in all of this we have been discussing, by disagreeing, as there are some who understand as you present the verses and then there are some who understand the way I have presented and the Good news is Jesus loves us all who love another and obey his laws of Love in all we do..so we are both in his grace and in HIS BODY... Allelujah! 

 godloveu

AND I LOVE YOU TOO!
Vickie
the father said he was sending the tribulation through the seed of Ishmael  and they are camped around us now.  Trust the Lord in the times of trouble that is near to all of us.   The Lord is coming.